Jamie Clark wrote:
> Well said, Holly. I never thought about HOW I would have my kids, and
just
> assumed I'd pop them out. Then I had 9 losses and rethought my options.
> In that respect, I was forced to rethink my options. But I was not
forced
> to adoption. I chose it, just as I could have chosen to be child-less.
> Since I was getting pregnant relatively easily (3-5 pregnancies in a
year)
> we kept working on the medical IF pathway, because it always felt like I
was
> just a step away from "getting it right" and staying pregnant. When it
> became clear to us that I wasn't ever likely going to be able to stay
> pregnant, we quickly moved to adoption, and I've been blessed that it
worked
> out well for us.
>
> I've been reading these posts, and just sit here wondering, exactly what
> does Kathy, First Mother, want to hear?
Ok, I found your post. To answer your question, that is not why I
lurk here, but hearing the truth is always a good start and will answer
your question.
What exactly would her ideal
> adoptive parent "look" like emotionally, what would they say, what would
she
> feel was an acceptable answer to these types of questions? I really am
> asking in an open and honest way, and Kathy, if you can answer without
> ripping me a new asshole, I'd appreciate it. I'm not trying to be snide
or
> rude.
There is no ideal or perfect adoptive parent.
> I can understand that I can never understand where you have been, what
you
> have experienced, and what you went through.
But it also doesn't sound like
> you can understand that many adoptions today are nothing like what you
> experienced, and can be a much more positive experience for everyone
> involved, including the birth/first mothers.
While they are not the same in some ways, they are the same in this
way.
It will always involve a loss for the child. He loses his right to be
raised in his family of origin. His siblings lose their brother or
sister, he loses his rights. Open adoption does nothing to remove that
truth. Therefore, adoption is the same. It is full of losses for the
adoptee and should only be done if truly necessary. As far as it being
a more positive experience, are you speaking of the benefits of open
adoption? And who is it a more positive experience for? While a child
can and does have a happy adoptive family, that in itself does not
erase the relinquishment, and the issues that may erupt from having
been given away. While I do not disagree, it would be denial for me
to say that open adoption does not present itself with another set of
issues, many which are not positive. For instance, the adoptee is
given away, while his siblings are kept
by the family of origin. There's one issue, one the adoptee must
reconcile. The open adoption is being monitored by the aparents, so
the relation****p formed by the adoptee and his first mother or father
is less than authentic. These are just a couple of examples that come
to mind. There are more. The main thing adoptive parents and some
birth parents don't want to admit to is that they get into thinking
that open adoption is always a positive and better thing for the
adoptee. It may be but the truth is, it may not be. Therefore,
relinquishment should always be done as a last resort. It is often,
and still is today, a permanent solution for a tem****ary problem. Too
much of a crapshoot for the child.
Placing a child is never a
> walk in the park, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that it's easy.
Just
> that hopefully there is more choice involved for many of today's
> birthmothers, and they don't feel violated, forced, or traumatized.
I think today's adoptions present a whole another set of issues for
mothers who relinquish.
There is no guarantee that the adoption will stay open or it will be a
better thing for her child. In fact, it could close the minute the ink
is dry on the final papers. In theory, there is not more choice for
today's bmoms who are placing newborns. An adoption is an adoption, a
loss is a loss, and that does not make it full of more choice or less
trauma for anyone.
She can choose the 'ideal' candidates for her child as parents, but
there is no guarantee that they will be better equipped to parent, or
in reality be a better parent than she will be for her child. There is
no guarantee seeing her child raised by another will make her feel less
traumatised or violated. I can think of many ways relinquishment today
is still being forced, and with that force will often come with much
trauma and violation. Too many adoptions today are being made on the
promises of open adoption. What a farce. It's a cheap marketing ploy,
a carrot dangled in the prospective birth parent's face to get her to
give up her baby. How many adoptive parents really do not want an open
adoption but feel they must say they do because they are desperate to
have a family? If there is one, it is too many.
I'm not
> saying you do.
>
> You are exactly right that being a parent is NOT an entitlement. And
those
> of us who dealt with infertility, and/or miscarriages, and then go on to
> adopt, well, we certainly don't feel entitled.
Some do though, feel entitled. They think they have more money, or are
better situated in life, and while they wait to be chosen for an
adoption placement, they ***** about those women who can just whip them
out.
I sure think we deserve to
> parent, if we chose to, after all we've been through.
I do not think anyone deserves to parent. Every child deserves a good
parent is more like it. And because you've been through a lot, the
collective you who are infertile, does not guarantee you'll be a better
parent than a bio parent. In fact, what you have said about, is a
major red flag to me as far as being ready to adopt. You, or anyone
else who has been through a lot, (that would also include me),
deserves to parent. That would be an entitlement. No one is entitled
to parent, but every the truth remains, every child is entitled to good
parenting.
But I don't think
> anyone is entitled to any baby.
>
> I have tremendous respect for my daughters' first mothers, and have told
one
> of them that many times. She has also told me, many times, that
although
> she regrets that she got pregnant, she doesn't regret choosing us to be
her
> child's family.
This is what she says now. She could change her mind about that as
time goes on.
In fact, it is not unusual for many bmoms to change their position
later, down the road.
Denial is a funny thing. Also, some bmoms won't be honest with the
adoptive mother in fear if they did, the adoption would become closed.
Many adoptions become closed if the bmom becomes non-compliant or shows
too much emotion. The bmom is still expected to just get over it.
Let's face it, her job is to provide a baby for the childless, and be
strong for her child. What a contradiction.
My other daughter's first mother disappeared after placing
> her child with us, and we haven't heard from her since.
More than likely, it's because she couldn't handle seeing her child in
another woman's arms more than her regard for her child. This is a
pretty common scenario in today's adoptions.
> Anyway, Kathy, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on these
issues,
> if you are interested in having a conversation with me.
Well, there you have it. :-)
Kathy
If you are only
> interested in ba****ng me, please don't bother.
> --
>
> Jamie
> Earth Angels:
> Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03 -- Who's got the Christmas spirit, singing all day
> long, "You put one foot in front of the other, and soon you'll be
walking
> out the doooo-oooo-ooor!
> Addison Grace, 9/30/04 -- My Little Ham, who smiles so big her eyes
> disappear and she says, "Cheese" on command. Although it sounds more
like
> "eeeeeesssshhh"!
>
> Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password:
> Guest
> Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID
and
> Password
>
> "Holly Sox" <jmsjr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:drgehb$dqnr$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >I was talking about being forced into thinking about one's fertility at
> >all.
> > For some fortunates, pregnancy happens exactly when they want it to.
For
> > some others, still fortunate, it happens when you weren't expecting,
but
> > isn't a huge, life-shattering catastrophe (like my first pregnancy
was) .
> > I
> > would think very, very, very few little girls grow into womanhood and
> > analyze all the possibilities of life and fertility and infertility,
and
> > plot out our feelings about each possibility.
> >
> > Until we are backed into the corner of IF (as I was later) , most of
us
> > never think about it. And the journey through the feelings is
intensely
> > personal and individual and must be taken at one's own pace.
> >
> > To be so angry and ugly in response to honest soul-searching and
> > questions,
> > you must really still have some issues about your situation. Sorry
about
> > that. But try to get a grip. Jeez.
> >
> >
> > Holly
> > --
> > <Meagan787@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> > news:1138295066.669147.322740@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> Holly Sox wrote:
> >> > I'm pretty sure she means she's a birth mother. Please be aware
that
> >> > not
> >> > all of us feel that way. Vicki, I've been following your posts on
aip
> > and
> >> > here, and don't think you're taking it lightly at all. IF and
adoption
> > are
> >> > HUGE issues that most of us never consider until we are forced into
it.
> >>
> >> What do you mean by *forced into it*? Like last resort?
> >>
> >> If so, Blech. Being a parent is not an entitlement.
> >>
> >> Kathy
> >> first mother
> >>
> >> You
> >> > need to work through all your feelings about all of it, and the
> > financial
> >> > stuff doesn't make it any easier.
> >> >
> >> > (((((Vicki))))))
> >> >
> >> > Holly
> >> >
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